No, the Pittsburgh anarchist organizations never vandalized the East End Food Co-Op. Why would they? How would that help their causes? That is a lie perpetrated by biased and sensationalist media and misinformed people.
Responding to Black Cat's comments of 11/ 5/2008 - 2:14pm:
"Were the cats put in a bucket of a backhoe as you told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, or where they thrown into a hole by Lin wearing welders gloves as you told the Pittsburgh City Paper?"
Could the cats have been buried in different ways at different times? She said two slightly different things about the way cats were buried. Does that mean she fabricated the photos and videos about multitudes of suffering cats? Or that there were many burials?
I learned about this story today and read the article, and I want to reply to Black Cat's comments from 11/2/2008 11:03am. Black Cat's comments are in all caps.
IT IS A SHAME THAT YOU DID NOTHING TO HELP THIS CAT BEFORE IT DIED---DID NOT TRY TO GIVE IT FLUIDS---DID NOT NOTIFY THE STEWARD OF THIS CATS CONDITION---JUST DIALED THE PHONE AND LISTENED TO THE CAT MOAN???
Agreed -- with all the evidence we have about that incident, it does sound bad that she did not intervene. But that's besides the evidence about the cruel neglect by Tiger Ranch to hundreds of cats at a time, and probably many thousands during its years of operation.
REID, DEFOREST, AND MORROW SAT IN A CAR ALONG MILLER ROAD--WHY DIDN'T THEY GO INSIDE TIGER RANCH--IF THEY WERE WORKING UNDERCOVER THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN A LOT MORE INFORMATION AND PHOTOS HAD THEY GONE INSIDE THE FACILITY. WERE THEY NOT ON FRIENDLY TERMS WITH TIGER RANCH?
They would have to be allowed in, which would make it harder to conceal the investigation. If they were already not on friendly terms with the Ranch, that in no way impacts the evidence.
YOU FOUND NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS FACILITY IN 2004?
I'd imagine she did not spend a long time at the Ranch while dropping off cats there, and saw little of the grounds. Working there would have allowed her to see all the rooms, the procedures, the freezers, the graves, etc.
HOW MANY HOURS PER WEEK DID YOU VOLUNTEER?
Even an hour a week is enough to see what's going on, unlike dropping off cats which is not enough.
AS A RESIDENT OF BUTLER COUNTY, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE YOU WERE LAID OFF FOR "BUDGETARY REASONS".
What's strange about the idea of an organization laying off a paid employee when it no longer has enough money to pay the employee? And what does you own residency have to do with it?
DID YOU SEE THE DEATH ROOM----DID YOU GO INSIDE IT? ISN'T THAT WHERE MOST OF THE UNDERCOVER VIDEOS WERE SHOT? DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO ENTER THIS ROOM?
The question of whether she was allowed to enter has absolutely no moral bearing on the issue. You seem to be saying that although all these animals were left to suffer, the evidence is somehow invalid because Urmann did not have permission to enter the room. So you agree that the animals were left to suffer. So besised the point, it is quite plausible that a regular volunteer would be allowed to enter the death room.
IF YOU HAD ANY DOUBTS ABOUT THE FACILITY---WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR CATS THERE? WHY WERE YOU UNABLE TO TAKE THEM TO YOUR NEW RESIDENCE?
'"I had a bad feeling about the place as soon as I got there," says McCalpin, who talks about the cats through tears. "I saw some sick cats. ... But because we felt we didn't have any other choice, we left them. I have never forgiven myself for that."' Taking your cat to another state can be difficult. For example, you have to find an apartment where cats are allowed. Especially if the move is abrupt, this can be impossible. So she left the cats with someone who said they woud be well cared for. She may have told herself that there are sick cats in all such places. But within a week she returned for them.
I JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD SURRENDER YOUR CAT, AND THEN WANT IT BACK.
"The decision weighed on her all week." What's hard to understand about that?
"Winikoff no longer works for LCA. " WHY?
Because DeRose fired him for insisting to investigate further after finding evidence of horrible suffering. So says DeRose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8t536n0OnU .
PLEASE EXPLAIN "ALL MESSED UP"---CAN MS. DEFOREST EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN---SHE HAS A DEGREE IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY
No education is needed to get the gist of "messed up" here. It is a coloquial term expressing emotion by the speaker. In this case, it means they were very angry and dismayed. You can understand that they felt powerless because the organizations that were supposed to be concerned were turning a blind eye despite being shown evidence.
I HOPE ALL THE PAPERWORK WAS IN ORDER.
That does not matter with respect to the moral value of the case: the suffering that the cats were left to endure.
"At any time these folks could have come to us" with evidence, he says, "but they never did."
VERY GOOD POINT
Not really. They expected to receive no help and no independent investigation from WPHS, just as they had other local organizations. "[b]y that point, the women had decided that local agencies had conflicting interests. The very people who were supposed to monitor Tiger Ranch, they surmised, depended on it to help take care of surplus cats." So they could go to the WPHC.
I FIND HOWARD NELSONS COMMENTS APPAULING. WHY WAS ANIMAL PLANET THERE? MONEY?
The show may exist to raise money, so what? The Ranch also takes money.
I SAW PHOTOS OF THE PSPCA TRUCKS WITH TIGER RANCH CATS--THE CATS I SAW IN THE PHOTO LOOKED HEALTHY
Let's all see the photo.
DID THE PSPCA COMBINE ALL THE TIGER RANCH CATS TOGETHER IN THESE TRUCKS? SICK AND HEALTHY CATS?
Do you have any evidence that they did? And if they were already in the same room together, would it make a difference to put them in the same truck?
HOW LONG WERE THEY IN THESE TRUCKS BEFORE THEY WERE EXAMINED?
Good question.
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE PSPCA CAN RAID A FACILITY AND NOT HAVE THE SUPPLIES TO TAKE CARE OF THESE ANIMALS.
The conditions they had were better than the appauling conditions at the Ranch. They had some supplies and some vets, so the animals would have better conditions, and some treatment or euthenasia; at the Ranch, they would receive none of that. That justifies the decision to raid the facility and take them away.
THERE WERE MANY REQUESTS MADE TO THE PUBLIC FOR DONATIONS. THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CATS TAKEN FROM TIGER RANCH HAS BEEN REPORTED AS: BETWEEN 700 AND 1,000---DEPENDING ON WHICH ARTICLES YOU READ, OR WHICH NEWS REPORT YOU WATCH--THIS ARTICLE STATES NEARLY 400. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ANIMALS THAT WERE TAKEN FROM TIGER RANCH---ARE THERE CHARGES AGAINST THEM? SEEMS LIKE ONLY THE CATS ARE BEING MENTIONED. CAN WE GET AN UPDATE ON THESE OTHER ANIMALS?
I'd like to know that too. Where are those other numbers reported?
Recent Comments
"Were the cats put in a bucket of a backhoe as you told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, or where they thrown into a hole by Lin wearing welders gloves as you told the Pittsburgh City Paper?"
Could the cats have been buried in different ways at different times? She said two slightly different things about the way cats were buried. Does that mean she fabricated the photos and videos about multitudes of suffering cats? Or that there were many burials?
"Are you sure Rutu is the same cat in both photos?"
There are four photos of Rutu in the article, followed by three photos of unnamed cats.
"In one picture he looks like a gray cat and in the other photo he looks like a black cat?"
Which picture labelled Rutu looks like a picture of a black cat to you?
"The markings on his face are different also."
Only the last picture has a face that's different from Rutu, and it's a different cat. It's not labeled as Rutu.
"There are 2 different photographers for the photos(Goldbloom and Mull)."
So?
IT IS A SHAME THAT YOU DID NOTHING TO HELP THIS CAT BEFORE IT DIED---DID NOT TRY TO GIVE IT FLUIDS---DID NOT NOTIFY THE STEWARD OF THIS CATS CONDITION---JUST DIALED THE PHONE AND LISTENED TO THE CAT MOAN???
Agreed -- with all the evidence we have about that incident, it does sound bad that she did not intervene. But that's besides the evidence about the cruel neglect by Tiger Ranch to hundreds of cats at a time, and probably many thousands during its years of operation.
REID, DEFOREST, AND MORROW SAT IN A CAR ALONG MILLER ROAD--WHY DIDN'T THEY GO INSIDE TIGER RANCH--IF THEY WERE WORKING UNDERCOVER THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN A LOT MORE INFORMATION AND PHOTOS HAD THEY GONE INSIDE THE FACILITY. WERE THEY NOT ON FRIENDLY TERMS WITH TIGER RANCH?
They would have to be allowed in, which would make it harder to conceal the investigation. If they were already not on friendly terms with the Ranch, that in no way impacts the evidence.
YOU FOUND NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS FACILITY IN 2004?
I'd imagine she did not spend a long time at the Ranch while dropping off cats there, and saw little of the grounds. Working there would have allowed her to see all the rooms, the procedures, the freezers, the graves, etc.
HOW MANY HOURS PER WEEK DID YOU VOLUNTEER?
Even an hour a week is enough to see what's going on, unlike dropping off cats which is not enough.
AS A RESIDENT OF BUTLER COUNTY, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE YOU WERE LAID OFF FOR "BUDGETARY REASONS".
What's strange about the idea of an organization laying off a paid employee when it no longer has enough money to pay the employee? And what does you own residency have to do with it?
DID YOU SEE THE DEATH ROOM----DID YOU GO INSIDE IT? ISN'T THAT WHERE MOST OF THE UNDERCOVER VIDEOS WERE SHOT? DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO ENTER THIS ROOM?
The question of whether she was allowed to enter has absolutely no moral bearing on the issue. You seem to be saying that although all these animals were left to suffer, the evidence is somehow invalid because Urmann did not have permission to enter the room. So you agree that the animals were left to suffer. So besised the point, it is quite plausible that a regular volunteer would be allowed to enter the death room.
IF YOU HAD ANY DOUBTS ABOUT THE FACILITY---WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR CATS THERE? WHY WERE YOU UNABLE TO TAKE THEM TO YOUR NEW RESIDENCE?
'"I had a bad feeling about the place as soon as I got there," says McCalpin, who talks about the cats through tears. "I saw some sick cats. ... But because we felt we didn't have any other choice, we left them. I have never forgiven myself for that."' Taking your cat to another state can be difficult. For example, you have to find an apartment where cats are allowed. Especially if the move is abrupt, this can be impossible. So she left the cats with someone who said they woud be well cared for. She may have told herself that there are sick cats in all such places. But within a week she returned for them.
I JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD SURRENDER YOUR CAT, AND THEN WANT IT BACK.
"The decision weighed on her all week." What's hard to understand about that?
"Winikoff no longer works for LCA. " WHY?
Because DeRose fired him for insisting to investigate further after finding evidence of horrible suffering. So says DeRose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8t536n0OnU .
PLEASE EXPLAIN "ALL MESSED UP"---CAN MS. DEFOREST EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN---SHE HAS A DEGREE IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY
No education is needed to get the gist of "messed up" here. It is a coloquial term expressing emotion by the speaker. In this case, it means they were very angry and dismayed. You can understand that they felt powerless because the organizations that were supposed to be concerned were turning a blind eye despite being shown evidence.
I HOPE ALL THE PAPERWORK WAS IN ORDER.
That does not matter with respect to the moral value of the case: the suffering that the cats were left to endure.
"At any time these folks could have come to us" with evidence, he says, "but they never did."
VERY GOOD POINT
Not really. They expected to receive no help and no independent investigation from WPHS, just as they had other local organizations. "[b]y that point, the women had decided that local agencies had conflicting interests. The very people who were supposed to monitor Tiger Ranch, they surmised, depended on it to help take care of surplus cats." So they could go to the WPHC.
I FIND HOWARD NELSONS COMMENTS APPAULING. WHY WAS ANIMAL PLANET THERE? MONEY?
The show may exist to raise money, so what? The Ranch also takes money.
I SAW PHOTOS OF THE PSPCA TRUCKS WITH TIGER RANCH CATS--THE CATS I SAW IN THE PHOTO LOOKED HEALTHY
Let's all see the photo.
DID THE PSPCA COMBINE ALL THE TIGER RANCH CATS TOGETHER IN THESE TRUCKS? SICK AND HEALTHY CATS?
Do you have any evidence that they did? And if they were already in the same room together, would it make a difference to put them in the same truck?
HOW LONG WERE THEY IN THESE TRUCKS BEFORE THEY WERE EXAMINED?
Good question.
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE PSPCA CAN RAID A FACILITY AND NOT HAVE THE SUPPLIES TO TAKE CARE OF THESE ANIMALS.
The conditions they had were better than the appauling conditions at the Ranch. They had some supplies and some vets, so the animals would have better conditions, and some treatment or euthenasia; at the Ranch, they would receive none of that. That justifies the decision to raid the facility and take them away.
THERE WERE MANY REQUESTS MADE TO THE PUBLIC FOR DONATIONS. THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CATS TAKEN FROM TIGER RANCH HAS BEEN REPORTED AS: BETWEEN 700 AND 1,000---DEPENDING ON WHICH ARTICLES YOU READ, OR WHICH NEWS REPORT YOU WATCH--THIS ARTICLE STATES NEARLY 400. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE OTHER ANIMALS THAT WERE TAKEN FROM TIGER RANCH---ARE THERE CHARGES AGAINST THEM? SEEMS LIKE ONLY THE CATS ARE BEING MENTIONED. CAN WE GET AN UPDATE ON THESE OTHER ANIMALS?
I'd like to know that too. Where are those other numbers reported?