OOP, I am really sorry I messed it up. I didn't realize it would cause everyone else's messages to be so low, but I get it now... Argosy is the worst place. I just heard from someone there that a couple of managers just got fired... probably not enough beatings on the ADAs... I got an e-mail from someone else that a lady from the newspaper is writing an article about EDMC and needs some help. Her e-mail address is [email protected] I e-mailed her but she needs to be flooded with e-mails.
I worked for EDMC (Argosy University) for about 11 months, which by Argosy standards is a lifetime. Since I am gone from there and have moved on to a really great job I have no ax to grind, and actually learned a lot there... So I have nothing to gain by my comments, these are simply the facts as I experienced them.
I would guess that Argosy is about the lowest of the low as far as calling itself a "college". I'm not referring to the academics, (I never took 1 class there, and never spoke to 1 professor), so I cannot speak to that. However, the "Admissions Department" is simply a telemarketing business. It is a sales business and what they are selling just happens to be education. But the tactics are the same, extreme high pressure and intimidation. I read the comments by "successful ada", and have to admit there are some people at EDMC who are happy. However they are isolated individuals as the overwhelming majority hate waking up to go there daily. "successful ada" said in their comments "i bet if you were successful and you were making the kind of money top ADA's make, your attitude would be different"... I understand what they are saying however they are trumpeting a completely wrong attitude, that which fundamentally convicts EDMC... more students = more money for the ADA. I have nothing against making more money, give me all you want; however don't tie it to the number of students I get. The problem with that equation is some more agressive ADAs (Assistant Director of Admissions, of which there are a couple of hundred... the title is a deceptive tactic in itself) will begin to bend the truth especially in the area of Title IV (federal financial aid). Those ADAs who are on PIPs (Personal Improvement Plans- specifically and overwhelminingly for lack of numbers) and in danger of losing their jobs or getting a 10-15% salary decrease, will say almost anything to get students to enroll. "successful ada" also mentions "top ADA's"... Top ADAs are simply those who enroll and start the most students (like selling the most cars)... Argosy is set up in teams, most about 15-20 "Assistant Directors of Admission" (telemarketers), and are headed up by Second Directors. The job of the Second Directors is easy and transparent. They are to drive the ADAs to get as many applications (including a $50 application fee)a week as possible. They have a 10 minute stand-up meeting with the ADAs in the morning and from that point on the Second Directors push the ADAs to have "quality conversations" with people they call in their database. The Second Directors walk up and down the aisles watching the ADAs' screens and listening to their conversations. The ADAs are instructed to take no breaks, make any personal phone calls, etc during the first 2 hours. I understand that; it's simply a control tactic. However the Second Directors, most of whom have no management experience whatsoever have no idea how to relate to the ADAs or maintain that control in a humanitarian way. So the Second Directors simply bully the ADAs, humiliate and intimidate them.
The Second Directors are led by a Director of Admissions. The Director of Admissions changes often, so if you don't like the current director, not to worry... they will be demoted, fired, transferred, whatever in time anyway... From what I understand, the current director went over from the Art Institute. His job is all numbers (students) driven, so it all runs down hill. He gets on the Second Directors for numbers and in turn the Second Directors beat on the ADAs for numbers.
In theory, that's all well and good.. sounds simply like a sales team driving up numbers and profits.. The sad fact however is THIS IS A COLLEGE (or posing as one). There is no semblance of a college whatsoever other than when the ADAs are on the phone with a prospect (since they talk about school).
Let me say something quickly about the prospects... as "m155 k17713" said earlier, prospects hear about Argosy in several different ways, and inquire about their programs. Some have a legitimate intent to inquire; however the vast majority are duped into releasing their personal information based on deceptive advertising that Argosy participates in. Many prospects assume they are simply completing a survey; some are trying to locate information about something totally unrelated to school, but a website is set up such that, to get to the next screen one is required to answer questions, one such question dealing with going back to school. The prospect simply replies "yes" to a box to continue to the next screen in their totally unrelated search. Once Argosy has their information, the unsuspecting prospects are relentlessly inundated with endless calls from hopelessly driven ADAs. If prospects are contacted and ask to be put on "no call" lists, the Second Directors simply rotate the "leads", the records of previous calls are wiped clean and new ADAs are required to call them. In other words, prospects are seldom deleted from the database. In fact, if an ADA attempts to delete a prospect's phone number from the database simply to assist a frustrated prospect, that ADA is reprimanded. So, once a prospect's information is in Argosy's database, the unsuspecting prospect is in for a nightmare.
The vast majority of ADAs at Argosy are hard working people simply trying to get through the day and watching the clock, praying for the time to pass quickly. Most make 200 or so dials per day and just hope for the next dail to be someone they can talk to, have a "quality conversation" with and get their $50.00. Again, "successful ada" talks about top ADAs... actually the top ADAs (there may be 2-3 on each team) are the Second Directors' favorites. So they get the best leads (leads are tiered based on the advertising source), they get the call-ins and the applications completed online, those not assigned to anyone. So top ADAs are fed by their Second Directors. (Those are the happy ADAs). Argosy sends out e-mails to everyone on the sales floor when an ADA gets an application, and they also have what is akin to a "Leader Board"... Even though the Second Directors and the Director would deny it or downplay it, the favorites are always at the top of the list week in and week out. There are a handful of ADAs who consistently get 3-4-5 applications per week while the rest flounder to avoid zeros for the week. Everyone knows how it works; however no one has any authority or are brave enough to say anything. You simply deal with it or leave.
One more thing... Argosy has a pay structure called "The Matrix"... based solely on the number of students ADAs enroll. They insist that there are also quality points (how well you execute your job); however, it's simply a smokescreen.... It is based 100% on numbers, and the quality points mean nothing other than window dressing to satisfy a dormant accrediting body, the Higher Learning Commission. Schools pay dues to be members of the commission, and from what I understand, it is partially based on the percentage of profit the school has (I am not sure about that since I was not there long enough to care to research it, that is simply what I heard)... So it is in the Higher Learning Commission's best interests to keep schools like this open for business. So I assume, even though it is a federal law that pay cannot be tied to numbers, the Higher Learning Commission overlooks such blatant disregard for employees and pay structure. The students and employees of EDMC are hurt by this.
Finally, I understand that Todd Nelson, the CEO of EDMC has brought in another University of Phoenix guy to fill the vacancy of Stephen Weiss... Gee that's a good decision... That school seems to be asleep at the wheel, or for that matter, the regulators...
Again, I have no ax to grind, I walked away from Argosy, I was not fired. I did an average job there of getting students, I was not a Top ADA (one of the favorites being handed apps); just average. But I sincerely feel sorry for those employees (especially the ADAs) who are still there having to put up with the intimidation, fear tactics and sheer rudeness of the Second Directors. They have to be the worst group of "managers" any company could assemble. Since they're only real consideration is getting numbers, people, lives, concerns, simple human courtesy be damned... Why did I leave? Sadly it was because the Director and Second Directors didn't care one ounce about me, and I ended up unfortunately, not caring about them. What did I learn there? I learned that what it all comes down to is, for EDMC, people are not cherished, people are not assets, they are simply numbers rolled into profits... both the students and employees...
Recent Comments
I would guess that Argosy is about the lowest of the low as far as calling itself a "college". I'm not referring to the academics, (I never took 1 class there, and never spoke to 1 professor), so I cannot speak to that. However, the "Admissions Department" is simply a telemarketing business. It is a sales business and what they are selling just happens to be education. But the tactics are the same, extreme high pressure and intimidation. I read the comments by "successful ada", and have to admit there are some people at EDMC who are happy. However they are isolated individuals as the overwhelming majority hate waking up to go there daily. "successful ada" said in their comments "i bet if you were successful and you were making the kind of money top ADA's make, your attitude would be different"... I understand what they are saying however they are trumpeting a completely wrong attitude, that which fundamentally convicts EDMC... more students = more money for the ADA. I have nothing against making more money, give me all you want; however don't tie it to the number of students I get. The problem with that equation is some more agressive ADAs (Assistant Director of Admissions, of which there are a couple of hundred... the title is a deceptive tactic in itself) will begin to bend the truth especially in the area of Title IV (federal financial aid). Those ADAs who are on PIPs (Personal Improvement Plans- specifically and overwhelminingly for lack of numbers) and in danger of losing their jobs or getting a 10-15% salary decrease, will say almost anything to get students to enroll. "successful ada" also mentions "top ADA's"... Top ADAs are simply those who enroll and start the most students (like selling the most cars)... Argosy is set up in teams, most about 15-20 "Assistant Directors of Admission" (telemarketers), and are headed up by Second Directors. The job of the Second Directors is easy and transparent. They are to drive the ADAs to get as many applications (including a $50 application fee)a week as possible. They have a 10 minute stand-up meeting with the ADAs in the morning and from that point on the Second Directors push the ADAs to have "quality conversations" with people they call in their database. The Second Directors walk up and down the aisles watching the ADAs' screens and listening to their conversations. The ADAs are instructed to take no breaks, make any personal phone calls, etc during the first 2 hours. I understand that; it's simply a control tactic. However the Second Directors, most of whom have no management experience whatsoever have no idea how to relate to the ADAs or maintain that control in a humanitarian way. So the Second Directors simply bully the ADAs, humiliate and intimidate them.
The Second Directors are led by a Director of Admissions. The Director of Admissions changes often, so if you don't like the current director, not to worry... they will be demoted, fired, transferred, whatever in time anyway... From what I understand, the current director went over from the Art Institute. His job is all numbers (students) driven, so it all runs down hill. He gets on the Second Directors for numbers and in turn the Second Directors beat on the ADAs for numbers.
In theory, that's all well and good.. sounds simply like a sales team driving up numbers and profits.. The sad fact however is THIS IS A COLLEGE (or posing as one). There is no semblance of a college whatsoever other than when the ADAs are on the phone with a prospect (since they talk about school).
Let me say something quickly about the prospects... as "m155 k17713" said earlier, prospects hear about Argosy in several different ways, and inquire about their programs. Some have a legitimate intent to inquire; however the vast majority are duped into releasing their personal information based on deceptive advertising that Argosy participates in. Many prospects assume they are simply completing a survey; some are trying to locate information about something totally unrelated to school, but a website is set up such that, to get to the next screen one is required to answer questions, one such question dealing with going back to school. The prospect simply replies "yes" to a box to continue to the next screen in their totally unrelated search. Once Argosy has their information, the unsuspecting prospects are relentlessly inundated with endless calls from hopelessly driven ADAs. If prospects are contacted and ask to be put on "no call" lists, the Second Directors simply rotate the "leads", the records of previous calls are wiped clean and new ADAs are required to call them. In other words, prospects are seldom deleted from the database. In fact, if an ADA attempts to delete a prospect's phone number from the database simply to assist a frustrated prospect, that ADA is reprimanded. So, once a prospect's information is in Argosy's database, the unsuspecting prospect is in for a nightmare.
The vast majority of ADAs at Argosy are hard working people simply trying to get through the day and watching the clock, praying for the time to pass quickly. Most make 200 or so dials per day and just hope for the next dail to be someone they can talk to, have a "quality conversation" with and get their $50.00. Again, "successful ada" talks about top ADAs... actually the top ADAs (there may be 2-3 on each team) are the Second Directors' favorites. So they get the best leads (leads are tiered based on the advertising source), they get the call-ins and the applications completed online, those not assigned to anyone. So top ADAs are fed by their Second Directors. (Those are the happy ADAs). Argosy sends out e-mails to everyone on the sales floor when an ADA gets an application, and they also have what is akin to a "Leader Board"... Even though the Second Directors and the Director would deny it or downplay it, the favorites are always at the top of the list week in and week out. There are a handful of ADAs who consistently get 3-4-5 applications per week while the rest flounder to avoid zeros for the week. Everyone knows how it works; however no one has any authority or are brave enough to say anything. You simply deal with it or leave.
One more thing... Argosy has a pay structure called "The Matrix"... based solely on the number of students ADAs enroll. They insist that there are also quality points (how well you execute your job); however, it's simply a smokescreen.... It is based 100% on numbers, and the quality points mean nothing other than window dressing to satisfy a dormant accrediting body, the Higher Learning Commission. Schools pay dues to be members of the commission, and from what I understand, it is partially based on the percentage of profit the school has (I am not sure about that since I was not there long enough to care to research it, that is simply what I heard)... So it is in the Higher Learning Commission's best interests to keep schools like this open for business. So I assume, even though it is a federal law that pay cannot be tied to numbers, the Higher Learning Commission overlooks such blatant disregard for employees and pay structure. The students and employees of EDMC are hurt by this.
Finally, I understand that Todd Nelson, the CEO of EDMC has brought in another University of Phoenix guy to fill the vacancy of Stephen Weiss... Gee that's a good decision... That school seems to be asleep at the wheel, or for that matter, the regulators...
Again, I have no ax to grind, I walked away from Argosy, I was not fired. I did an average job there of getting students, I was not a Top ADA (one of the favorites being handed apps); just average. But I sincerely feel sorry for those employees (especially the ADAs) who are still there having to put up with the intimidation, fear tactics and sheer rudeness of the Second Directors. They have to be the worst group of "managers" any company could assemble. Since they're only real consideration is getting numbers, people, lives, concerns, simple human courtesy be damned... Why did I leave? Sadly it was because the Director and Second Directors didn't care one ounce about me, and I ended up unfortunately, not caring about them. What did I learn there? I learned that what it all comes down to is, for EDMC, people are not cherished, people are not assets, they are simply numbers rolled into profits... both the students and employees...