SDA and others,
What is usual of most rumors is that there is something in there that may have resembled a truth, surrounded by mostly falsehoods.
The issues brought forth by myself, Deputy Chief Colleen Walz, about this current exam are not new. I have been vocal in identifying where I have thought this exam was weak, for several years. I have gotten grief and knew I would and expected ugliness to rise again, but this negativity does not change the obvious shortcomings of the current test used.
To Clarify, again, much to the dismay or admittance of a select group, My hiring would have happened regardless of the hiring of any minorities, as that is where my name and my score fell by merit, legally, on the eligibility list in the year and date of hiring. Selective ignorance of the truth prevails, there is a reason for that, and those that know the truth are selectively silent.
(Ignorance of the truth simply suits the agenda and argument of those who attempt to impugn credibility) Why? You decide, credibility lies in the truth, and the strength to identify yourself and say it openly speaks for itself. I suggest you do research on the subject and get back to me.
Respecting all women current and past, (one who gave her life along side two fellow firefighters) past hiring is irrelevant to the current issue , or is it?
You had an exam 25 years ago, that was brought about because the exam prior, was fought by 2 Male candidates. The exam they fought and won legal remedy for, was an exam that timed events required access to specific Firefighting equipment, to do well on. The candidates suggested that firefighter families, sons, brothers, uncles, clearly had an advantage to the equipment while others with no family or friends on the job did not have that access. Does that sound familiar?
24 Years ago, existed an exam that women could get on the eligibility list, they had to wait on the list like many others, but the possibility existed that if they were to need a large amount of firefighters, Veteran Preference could be less of a factor , they would be hired and others could be also, that is how I was hired. That is how others have been hired, specifically in the last 4 years due to the mass hire. Did the city realize we would be doing extensive hiring off of that list? Yes, was the issue of the invalid exam brought up then? Yes. were the shortcomings of this exam known 3-4 years ago? Yes they were.
For the last 12 years the city has been using an exam that not one woman prior has passed for 12 years, and requires specific training and knowledge of the equipment and requires use of a specific piece of firefighting eqipment. There is no further comment necessary on that subject.
The women who are here currently, doing this job, have been doing this job against great challenges they have endured to accomplish their success. This fact needs to be shouted to the roof tops, as this feat speaks volumes of the strength and character of the women who are here and have been here for over 20 years.
Pgh firefighter,
I am thrilled that two women have passed this current exam, with as you say, 100%. Unfortunately, this still does not make this exam fair, and since you have stated this and have knowledge of this fact, I am sure you are aware, as am I, of how success can be achieved by some women, had this access, knowledge and training been appropriated more efficiently. The argument to have a transparent, fair exam would be a moot. point.
I have stated that the CPAT exam is not an easy exam, nor should the exam be easy. The CPAT is transparent and offered properly, it requires mentoring and training. The current exam does not fall into that category. As to your other comments, I may suggest you look past the "stereotyping" as to what a minority of potential loud bigots convey, if you are aware of the two women who passed, please don't think for one second, if they are hired, they are immune, somehow to criticism, from those same bigots,. These are women we are talking about, and because of this there will continue to be microscopic scrutiny of their abilities by some, regardless of where they fell on the eligibility list. If there were not only a handful of women then they would not be in the fishbowl that they find themselves in. This fact should not deter them. The love of the service is what allows most women to continue to persevere. I am included in that group.
I weigh those bigoted comments against the very real, confident male firefighters who have worked successfully along side women both past and present, fighting fire. The truth is silent but confident and not echoed as loudly when it is not popular among the loud minority. Some of whom have never worked with women in their adult lives. It is hard sometimes to separate the acceptance of and the bigotry conveyed, especially in the microcosm of an Engine house that continues to be solely male, and the macho locker room mentality continues through out the day. Although not nearly as negative as it once was, still prevalent at times, is that if one firefighter conveys one negative experience with one female firefighter, (could have been 20 years ago) all women have been branded with the same iron. Please analyze that. That is part of the problem that allows the garbage talk to continue. Sometimes ego, bravado and rumor is louder than the truth.
One woman hired in 1997, did get hired from the list, but she did not get hired using the current exam which has denied women for the last 12 years. To her credit, she did, have Veterans Preference points, pushing her up the eligibility list. Veterans Preference (VP) Points are awarded and that is the system under the State of PA. I have absolutely no issue with (VP) points, however, as Vegas1 suggests, they want the best candidate. Does adding points allow for the best candidates? With reverant respect for Veterans, sometimes the best get hired, but not always. One need only read the news from time to time to figure that out. The score on a test does not always measure the best qualities of a firefighter, but that is the system, and we use it.
It would be interesting for you to know that all women hired in 1987, many years ago, had actually beaten many men who were hired before them on the same physical test, a few years before them, from the same list however, the men who had (VP) points were put at the top of the list and were hired first. Again, that is the system, but it was said that you want the best candidates right? So where is the measuring stick for what constitutes the best candidate?
I have fought fires with many great firefighters, many of them male Vets, some female vets, men and women who were not vets. There are many great firefighters here in the city and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors and sexes. They work all over this city in every Engine company. Some of those skilled firefighters are also loud mouthed bigots, but that does not take away from recognizing their ability to perform specific task needed and using them when necessary. Still, some of the loudest,most sexist males on the job use their mouth to cover up their own inadequacies and laziness, and I would not classify them as quality firefighters. Yet, their bigoted voice has impacted those who have no direct experience or knowledge, in working with women. We continue to employ those loud mouthed lazy bigots, regardless of who carries their weight. I am sure you are aware of those people too. That is the point.
I will also add, and it cannot be denied, that one must be physically strong and fit to accomplish the tasks required of firefighting, all things being equal (after proper testing, that truly constitutes what we do), does this test, in and of itself qualify an individual to be a good firefighter with all of the job duties expected of Career Firefighters today and in our city? It certainly helps, and identifies a necessary requirement, and I argue a measuring stick is needed, but is that the sole criteria there should be to measure, considering all that is required from a city firefighter today?
I am just posing the question, many of you, who are city firefighters, already know some of those answers.
Attacking me, or other women currently on the job at this stage of the game is meaningless, Against great odds and most over 20 years of service, many of those women are still here, and again, speaks volumes about the strength of character and caliber of the women who endured.
Are you suggesting the one female who was hired in 1997 has not experienced the same or similar hostilities or microscopic treatment? I would beg to differ, she has, all women have in one form or another, but all things are equal right? Unfortunately they are not always equal regardless of how you are hired, but again, as a woman in a predominantly male career, you find a way to persevere to continue to provide a public service and attempt to continue in a career that you love, regardless of that scrutiny.
The fact remains that the test is supposed to give all candidates a fair shot.
This does not happen when accessibility to the tools and specific equipment used for the exam is not accessbible to some and available to others. It stands to reason that if you have access, and can practice using the very same equipment for a proper exam, one would expect that you would perform better had you not had that access. To suggest that this does not benefit a candidate would be a foolish statement. To suggest that this does not benefit more men who are aware of this and have access, than women, would be disingenuous. I will also add that many men, in addition to women failed the exam for the same reasons, lack of access to the equipment and knowledge of specific technique.
The kaiser sled is not supposed to simulate breaching a wall or door, and as you have eloquently conveyed, is part of the problem of this event, and an old argument. It is not the intent of the Kaiser sled and this is not hard to figure out if you know how to properly do forcible entry, or open a roof. The SCBA is not intended nor engineered to be worn with out a bunker coat is it? This type of exam has been abandoned in many, many cities and states. Litigation, by both male and female candidates successfully accomplished that for some of the same reasons and confusion. More importantly, which exam is endorsed by the IAFF and the IAFC?
I respect all opinions, and have listened to them for years. The issues surrounding this exam did not occur overnight and have been stated openly for several years. I believe there is merit to some of the arguments made, and discount others for obvious reasons.
Respectfully,
Colleen Walz
One Major correction to this story, the use of the current exam is not specified in the Union Contract, and never has been, the type of test Used is determined by the City of Pittsburgh Civil Service. Use of the CPAT exam is supported by the International Association of Firefighters,(IAFF) and the International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC).
Respectfully submitted,
Colleen J. Walz
Recent Comments
What is usual of most rumors is that there is something in there that may have resembled a truth, surrounded by mostly falsehoods.
The issues brought forth by myself, Deputy Chief Colleen Walz, about this current exam are not new. I have been vocal in identifying where I have thought this exam was weak, for several years. I have gotten grief and knew I would and expected ugliness to rise again, but this negativity does not change the obvious shortcomings of the current test used.
To Clarify, again, much to the dismay or admittance of a select group, My hiring would have happened regardless of the hiring of any minorities, as that is where my name and my score fell by merit, legally, on the eligibility list in the year and date of hiring. Selective ignorance of the truth prevails, there is a reason for that, and those that know the truth are selectively silent.
(Ignorance of the truth simply suits the agenda and argument of those who attempt to impugn credibility) Why? You decide, credibility lies in the truth, and the strength to identify yourself and say it openly speaks for itself. I suggest you do research on the subject and get back to me.
Respecting all women current and past, (one who gave her life along side two fellow firefighters) past hiring is irrelevant to the current issue , or is it?
You had an exam 25 years ago, that was brought about because the exam prior, was fought by 2 Male candidates. The exam they fought and won legal remedy for, was an exam that timed events required access to specific Firefighting equipment, to do well on. The candidates suggested that firefighter families, sons, brothers, uncles, clearly had an advantage to the equipment while others with no family or friends on the job did not have that access. Does that sound familiar?
24 Years ago, existed an exam that women could get on the eligibility list, they had to wait on the list like many others, but the possibility existed that if they were to need a large amount of firefighters, Veteran Preference could be less of a factor , they would be hired and others could be also, that is how I was hired. That is how others have been hired, specifically in the last 4 years due to the mass hire. Did the city realize we would be doing extensive hiring off of that list? Yes, was the issue of the invalid exam brought up then? Yes. were the shortcomings of this exam known 3-4 years ago? Yes they were.
For the last 12 years the city has been using an exam that not one woman prior has passed for 12 years, and requires specific training and knowledge of the equipment and requires use of a specific piece of firefighting eqipment. There is no further comment necessary on that subject.
The women who are here currently, doing this job, have been doing this job against great challenges they have endured to accomplish their success. This fact needs to be shouted to the roof tops, as this feat speaks volumes of the strength and character of the women who are here and have been here for over 20 years.
Pgh firefighter,
I am thrilled that two women have passed this current exam, with as you say, 100%. Unfortunately, this still does not make this exam fair, and since you have stated this and have knowledge of this fact, I am sure you are aware, as am I, of how success can be achieved by some women, had this access, knowledge and training been appropriated more efficiently. The argument to have a transparent, fair exam would be a moot. point.
I have stated that the CPAT exam is not an easy exam, nor should the exam be easy. The CPAT is transparent and offered properly, it requires mentoring and training. The current exam does not fall into that category. As to your other comments, I may suggest you look past the "stereotyping" as to what a minority of potential loud bigots convey, if you are aware of the two women who passed, please don't think for one second, if they are hired, they are immune, somehow to criticism, from those same bigots,. These are women we are talking about, and because of this there will continue to be microscopic scrutiny of their abilities by some, regardless of where they fell on the eligibility list. If there were not only a handful of women then they would not be in the fishbowl that they find themselves in. This fact should not deter them. The love of the service is what allows most women to continue to persevere. I am included in that group.
I weigh those bigoted comments against the very real, confident male firefighters who have worked successfully along side women both past and present, fighting fire. The truth is silent but confident and not echoed as loudly when it is not popular among the loud minority. Some of whom have never worked with women in their adult lives. It is hard sometimes to separate the acceptance of and the bigotry conveyed, especially in the microcosm of an Engine house that continues to be solely male, and the macho locker room mentality continues through out the day. Although not nearly as negative as it once was, still prevalent at times, is that if one firefighter conveys one negative experience with one female firefighter, (could have been 20 years ago) all women have been branded with the same iron. Please analyze that. That is part of the problem that allows the garbage talk to continue. Sometimes ego, bravado and rumor is louder than the truth.
One woman hired in 1997, did get hired from the list, but she did not get hired using the current exam which has denied women for the last 12 years. To her credit, she did, have Veterans Preference points, pushing her up the eligibility list. Veterans Preference (VP) Points are awarded and that is the system under the State of PA. I have absolutely no issue with (VP) points, however, as Vegas1 suggests, they want the best candidate. Does adding points allow for the best candidates? With reverant respect for Veterans, sometimes the best get hired, but not always. One need only read the news from time to time to figure that out. The score on a test does not always measure the best qualities of a firefighter, but that is the system, and we use it.
It would be interesting for you to know that all women hired in 1987, many years ago, had actually beaten many men who were hired before them on the same physical test, a few years before them, from the same list however, the men who had (VP) points were put at the top of the list and were hired first. Again, that is the system, but it was said that you want the best candidates right? So where is the measuring stick for what constitutes the best candidate?
I have fought fires with many great firefighters, many of them male Vets, some female vets, men and women who were not vets. There are many great firefighters here in the city and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors and sexes. They work all over this city in every Engine company. Some of those skilled firefighters are also loud mouthed bigots, but that does not take away from recognizing their ability to perform specific task needed and using them when necessary. Still, some of the loudest,most sexist males on the job use their mouth to cover up their own inadequacies and laziness, and I would not classify them as quality firefighters. Yet, their bigoted voice has impacted those who have no direct experience or knowledge, in working with women. We continue to employ those loud mouthed lazy bigots, regardless of who carries their weight. I am sure you are aware of those people too. That is the point.
I will also add, and it cannot be denied, that one must be physically strong and fit to accomplish the tasks required of firefighting, all things being equal (after proper testing, that truly constitutes what we do), does this test, in and of itself qualify an individual to be a good firefighter with all of the job duties expected of Career Firefighters today and in our city? It certainly helps, and identifies a necessary requirement, and I argue a measuring stick is needed, but is that the sole criteria there should be to measure, considering all that is required from a city firefighter today?
I am just posing the question, many of you, who are city firefighters, already know some of those answers.
Attacking me, or other women currently on the job at this stage of the game is meaningless, Against great odds and most over 20 years of service, many of those women are still here, and again, speaks volumes about the strength of character and caliber of the women who endured.
Are you suggesting the one female who was hired in 1997 has not experienced the same or similar hostilities or microscopic treatment? I would beg to differ, she has, all women have in one form or another, but all things are equal right? Unfortunately they are not always equal regardless of how you are hired, but again, as a woman in a predominantly male career, you find a way to persevere to continue to provide a public service and attempt to continue in a career that you love, regardless of that scrutiny.
The fact remains that the test is supposed to give all candidates a fair shot.
This does not happen when accessibility to the tools and specific equipment used for the exam is not accessbible to some and available to others. It stands to reason that if you have access, and can practice using the very same equipment for a proper exam, one would expect that you would perform better had you not had that access. To suggest that this does not benefit a candidate would be a foolish statement. To suggest that this does not benefit more men who are aware of this and have access, than women, would be disingenuous. I will also add that many men, in addition to women failed the exam for the same reasons, lack of access to the equipment and knowledge of specific technique.
The kaiser sled is not supposed to simulate breaching a wall or door, and as you have eloquently conveyed, is part of the problem of this event, and an old argument. It is not the intent of the Kaiser sled and this is not hard to figure out if you know how to properly do forcible entry, or open a roof. The SCBA is not intended nor engineered to be worn with out a bunker coat is it? This type of exam has been abandoned in many, many cities and states. Litigation, by both male and female candidates successfully accomplished that for some of the same reasons and confusion. More importantly, which exam is endorsed by the IAFF and the IAFC?
I respect all opinions, and have listened to them for years. The issues surrounding this exam did not occur overnight and have been stated openly for several years. I believe there is merit to some of the arguments made, and discount others for obvious reasons.
Respectfully,
Colleen Walz
Respectfully submitted,
Colleen J. Walz