Location. Location. Location. Clearly the zoning board will not fall for their ill-conceived plan to allow a 1,200 capacity concert hall in the middle of what now is a great residential neighborhood.
Alan - everyone likes cool music. Heck, I even like John, the T-Bird's owner. But you're not addressing the neighborhood's concerns.
Tell me how you intend to increase the T-Bird's capacity without crushing the already stretched parking, litter and noise control capacity of what is, essentially, a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood.
We're all for sustainable development, man. But what Chris and John are doing isn't cool.
and I am definetly FOR them expanding... Thunderbird is very annoyingly cramped... it's a shame because it's cool joint that brings in cool bands ... it would be much cool-er had they the extra room and capacity . beyond me why anyone would expect it to be a quiet area when it's such a 20-something hive as it's been turning into ...
How you gonna have Lounge story and talk Open Mic without mentioning Yah Lioness Borne
that family that moved willingly to Fisk Street are fools. would you move right near Carson St. in the South side ? Hellll noooo ... c'mon. Move to the suburbs.
I'll weigh in as being AGAINST this expansion!!!
There is a healthy growth and then there is unhealthy growth. Almost all the businesses that have sprung up along Butler Street recently have been the healthy kind. I would like to support more of that and less of what is being proposed for the Thunderbird expansion. The article did get the details wrong on the numbers so careful about quoting it.
I would also like to point out that Thunderbird owns all of the buildings in their block, except for one. In order for Thunderbird to expand, those businesses will either need to close or be forced to move somewhere else. That's what they mean when they say "consolidate several properties". What are those business owners' opinions on this?
Chris Lasky, the T-bird's architect, said the occupancy of the hall is "1,200 people standing" at the meeting on December 17, 2012. Halito ain't making it up.
STOP THE THUNDERBIRD EXPANSION!
The issue is that there is not enough parking spots available in the commercial district (Butler St.) to support an expansion of this size. This block of Butler Street is at full capacity between Thunderbird and Belvederes right across the street. Thunderbird is suggesting the use of valet to a parking lot on 38th street, but there is no way that all of the folks going to Thunderbird would even use or pay for valet, so that is not a viable option to this issue. Parking will bleed into the residential areas, creating issues. The commercial district is not large enough to support a venue of this size, nor does this venue fit in with the scale of the commercial district, which consists of boutique shops and small businesses.
The community is all for Thunderbird at their current capacity. If they want to expand, they need to find a commercial area that can support their expansion, like the completely abandoned Iron City Brewery two blocks away.
You need to re-read the proposed plan. The venue and promoter both state that the performing acts would be done between 11-12am. They also said their target audience is 300-400 people. You can't just make up random numbers because that is what you think the occupancy can handle. Also, the zoning board decides what occupancy they will be allowed.
The key to responsible development is size of the venue and it's operating hours. Influx of even 300-500 within a 2-3 hour period forom just one of our businesses is a little overwhelming. I am a native of Lawrenceville, I've been here the whole time. I like what is going on, but I do not want one business to ruin the delicate balance. Other developers are doing a fine job by creating businesses and housing that fit. We are just trying to keep it going in a good direction, because I do love Lawrenceville. That's why I am still here after 50 years.
(fyi Tim - PorchCrawls are maybe 4X a year, average 20 people participating, and we are done and home by 10PM. Send me your e-mail address and I will put you on the list)
Thank you !
So there are entrance requirements to the neighborhood? We don't welcome families to Lawrenceville anymore? Oh, and there are time limits as well. Come here after when Chief say its ok, you got no right to your opinion. In your eyes its ok to have any kind of development happen along Butler street, come on in, park anywhere you want, create giant traffic jams right in front of my house, but woe be unto those who want to actually raise a family here? How about we put a Marcellus Shale well in the Rite Aid parking lot? Maybe a Wal-Mart, too, right across the street from YOUR house. That's development and jobs right? Zoning schmoning.
when did the The Hydzik family move to Lawrenceville? I got money that says it was after gentrification took over in 2000. For that I say they need to take a hike. Its the businesses that are driving Lawrenceville on the up and up. It's probably why the Hydzik's moved to lawrenceville before they had kids. If you cant handle the hustle and bustle of a growing neighborhood, maybe you need to check out a quite street in Monroeville to raise your children and park your cars. Why are you trying to raise a family of four in a 2 bedroom brownstone on Fisk anyway?
What's your problem, Tim: your mother never taught you to make a point without insulting people? Standing room is 1,200. Ask John.
Halito..The T-bird is not going to be 1200 people. The article states 300-600 and the community meeting even stated 300-600. So quit lying and posting BS to get people to fight against this.
BTW, please be aware that the standing capacity of the proposed concert space is 1,200. That's 1,200 people getting out at 2am in a residential neighborhood. Think about it.
Everyone in Lawrenceville is for organic and sustainable development, but the T-Bird project is completely socially irresponsible. This has nothing to do with music or the T-Bird's owners – hell, I like the T'Bird's music, and I want John to be successful. But the proposed project injects a sudden increase in DENSITY that the neighborhood is unable to sustain.
You can't QUINTUPLE the size of the T-Bird and tell me it isn't going to affect the quality of life for the people who live in the neighborhood. Where are people going to park? Where are they going to throw their cigarette butts and beer cans?
The 95% of residents who live within 1,000 feet of the T-Bird and oppose its expansion aren't anti-business, and we aren't anti-music. The issue also isn't the kind of clientele the T-Bird attracts. It's simply too big for the streets and the neighborhood to handle. It needs to be scaled way down, or moved to a new location.
I have lived in Lawrenceville for over 20 years and im all for this expansion,it was not long ago that people would die before they put a buisness in this neighborhood,so all of the people who just started living here please check out a little history of what this place was like b4 all the people started investing in this town
Tim, I don't know what the zoning is for the south side but the expanded Tbird does not comply with the Zoning Code for Butler Street in this area.
And this is the point, Tim - we don't want development like the South Side. We want development that complies with Zoning and protects this as first and foremost, a residential area.
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